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	<title>Comments on: Crisis in Infinite Games &#8211; Upper Deck Kills Vs.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robotviking.com/2009/01/28/crisis-in-infinite-games-upper-deck-kills-vs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/01/28/crisis-in-infinite-games-upper-deck-kills-vs/</link>
	<description>Gaming</description>
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		<title>By: ggodo</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/01/28/crisis-in-infinite-games-upper-deck-kills-vs/comment-page-1/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>ggodo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=382#comment-114</guid>
		<description>Well, I might just pick up the hellboy Vs. pack I saw if it goes down in price any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I might just pick up the hellboy Vs. pack I saw if it goes down in price any.</p>
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		<title>By: Myrmidon</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/01/28/crisis-in-infinite-games-upper-deck-kills-vs/comment-page-1/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrmidon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=382#comment-113</guid>
		<description>Another thing about Jyhad at least is that it has some excellent and dynamic multiplayer and pseudo-political concepts in play.  Many games especially CCGs are best in pairs or very small groups.  Jyhad/VtES can plays best in groups of 4 or more with each person and their individual deck completely altering strategy for all involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing about Jyhad at least is that it has some excellent and dynamic multiplayer and pseudo-political concepts in play.  Many games especially CCGs are best in pairs or very small groups.  Jyhad/VtES can plays best in groups of 4 or more with each person and their individual deck completely altering strategy for all involved.</p>
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		<title>By: FollowtheCamel</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/01/28/crisis-in-infinite-games-upper-deck-kills-vs/comment-page-1/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>FollowtheCamel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=382#comment-112</guid>
		<description>The thing about both Legend of the Five Rings (L5R) and Vampire/Jyhad (V:TES) is that they fill very strong, specific niches in the industry.  There isn&#039;t much growth to the properties but the Alderac and White Wolf have solid demographic information to control their production and marketing.  Those games are also internal IPs which lowers production costs since there is no licensing fee.  In contrast comic based properties, and probably licensed properties in general, are trying to reach a generally larger market and have to pay the comic companies just to produce their products.

Marketing aside, I think L5R and V:TES solid player base comes from relying on relationships between players as opposed to building a system where players are only competing.  Players of L5R and V:TES already love and share those worlds through fiction, role playing, board games, etc.  Playing the card games are just another way of experiencing those worlds.  Comic book properties are hurt because comic book fans don&#039;t have a strong community base from which to build a player base.  Comic fans are naturally fractured to DC vs. Marvel, Superman or Batman, etc.  While the initial pull is playing in the comic book universe something needs to retain those people.  The prize system as retention device only plays toward the contentious relationships of fandom as people are attempting to be the best player of the group as opposed to enjoying playing in the world that they love with friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing about both Legend of the Five Rings (L5R) and Vampire/Jyhad (V:TES) is that they fill very strong, specific niches in the industry.  There isn&#8217;t much growth to the properties but the Alderac and White Wolf have solid demographic information to control their production and marketing.  Those games are also internal IPs which lowers production costs since there is no licensing fee.  In contrast comic based properties, and probably licensed properties in general, are trying to reach a generally larger market and have to pay the comic companies just to produce their products.</p>
<p>Marketing aside, I think L5R and V:TES solid player base comes from relying on relationships between players as opposed to building a system where players are only competing.  Players of L5R and V:TES already love and share those worlds through fiction, role playing, board games, etc.  Playing the card games are just another way of experiencing those worlds.  Comic book properties are hurt because comic book fans don&#8217;t have a strong community base from which to build a player base.  Comic fans are naturally fractured to DC vs. Marvel, Superman or Batman, etc.  While the initial pull is playing in the comic book universe something needs to retain those people.  The prize system as retention device only plays toward the contentious relationships of fandom as people are attempting to be the best player of the group as opposed to enjoying playing in the world that they love with friends.</p>
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		<title>By: &#160; Vs System CCG Canceled&#160;by&#160;Purple Pawn</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/01/28/crisis-in-infinite-games-upper-deck-kills-vs/comment-page-1/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>&#160; Vs System CCG Canceled&#160;by&#160;Purple Pawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=382#comment-111</guid>
		<description>[...] (source, hat tip) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (source, hat tip) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/01/28/crisis-in-infinite-games-upper-deck-kills-vs/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=382#comment-110</guid>
		<description>YMGJason: Good call. This brings up another question - what&#039;s different about those games that has kept them around so long? How do they maintain a solid playerbase without the big &quot;world championship&quot; tour promotions, weekly tournaments in every town and tons of prize support (which seems to be the model most CCGs and CMGs are based on)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YMGJason: Good call. This brings up another question &#8211; what&#8217;s different about those games that has kept them around so long? How do they maintain a solid playerbase without the big &#8220;world championship&#8221; tour promotions, weekly tournaments in every town and tons of prize support (which seems to be the model most CCGs and CMGs are based on)?</p>
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		<title>By: silentstriderm</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/01/28/crisis-in-infinite-games-upper-deck-kills-vs/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>silentstriderm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=382#comment-109</guid>
		<description>Bummer!  On one hand I really hate that there isn&#039;t a gaming shop close, so I was never able to get into a lot of these different games, but it sure has saved me alot of money over the years!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bummer!  On one hand I really hate that there isn&#8217;t a gaming shop close, so I was never able to get into a lot of these different games, but it sure has saved me alot of money over the years!</p>
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		<title>By: YMGJason</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/01/28/crisis-in-infinite-games-upper-deck-kills-vs/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>YMGJason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=382#comment-108</guid>
		<description>Off the top of my head? Legend of the Five Rings (1996) and Vampire: The Eternal Struggle/Jyhad (1994) are still actively supported.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off the top of my head? Legend of the Five Rings (1996) and Vampire: The Eternal Struggle/Jyhad (1994) are still actively supported.</p>
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