Comments on: If It Was a Non-Combat Encounter, Why Did You Use Orcs?

By: Megido

Megido — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 23:51:18 +0000

This post was my introduction to Robot Viking. What a way to start, huh? With a moral dilemma.

By: Ed Grabianowski

Ed Grabianowski — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 04:10:47 +0000

Man, this was a classic comment discussion.

By: mordicai

mordicai — Wed, 20 May 2009 14:47:59 +0000

I know…isn’t it great?

By: TheDourSalmon

TheDourSalmon — Wed, 20 May 2009 08:13:20 +0000

That’s the problem with gaming in the postmodern world. Everyone’s a goddamn cultural anthropologist.

By: mordicai

mordicai — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:49:56 +0000

Theoretically they are different species? But in reality, they are stand-ins for race. Sure, you might run a real hard “science” game where biological differences in race are attributable to cranial capacity & such (then again, neanderthal looking guys like orcs would likely be smarter, considering neanderthal skull ccs…) but that isn’t how they are portrayed. They are Othered in a way that, on many levels, generates comparison to real world race relations. Much like Klingons in the original Star Trek were the Soviets– it is unavoidable that anthropomorphism will trickle in. & not bad! Just worthy of discussion.

See also: how “non-humans” (aliens, dwarves) generally have “accents” compared to the rest of the cast of a film, & how those accents generally map onto lower-income ethnicities. SURE, accents are a good short-hand for Othering, but then, doesn’t that say something about real world biases? Yes!

By: khovaros

khovaros — Thu, 14 May 2009 16:05:20 +0000

Charisma has always been partly comprised of physical attractiveness. In 1st edition Unearthed Arcana added the comliness score which was another 3-18 range (generally) score that was modified by the character’s charisma and race. Evidently it wasn’t popular enough to get carried into 2nd edition so appearance got rolled back into charisma for every edition since.

I don’t see how racial ability score penalties equated to real world racism. The D&D races ARE different species (though, granted some can interbreed). Orcs concievably have smaller brains on average than humans do. Brain size directly correlates to intelligence. Elves are on average quicker and Dwarves are on average sturdier than humans. Many races (frequently monster races are on average smarter than humans) it stands to reason that humans are smarter/sturdier/quicker than other races, otherwise they would be at the bottom of the D&D evolutionary scale. I think it is unrealistic to equate a fantasy race literally designed to be ‘bad guys’ to real-world societal inequities between humans.

By: silentstriderm

silentstriderm — Thu, 14 May 2009 14:04:59 +0000

It’s been a while, but I seem to remember that you rolled separately for a comeliness score in AD&D. Charisma could effect comeliness. but it was a separate stat.

http://rotd.rpgclassics.com/dmsection/comeliness.shtml

By: ggodo

ggodo — Thu, 14 May 2009 13:18:28 +0000

Yea, Charisma was physical attractiveness at one point. My D&D has gaps in it having only played 2nd and 4th, but in second it was physical appearance too. The running immature joke was penis length and cup size, but we’re not playing FATAL so those aren’t actual statistics here. Don’t google FATAL, it is the worst RPG ever.

By: Megido

Megido — Thu, 14 May 2009 05:09:13 +0000

Did they used to consider charisma to be physical attractiveness? ‘Cause the DICTIONARY would even say otherwise. I figure looks factors into it on some level, but really charisma is general attractiveness (not purely physical) or charm. Ones force of personality.

By: ggodo

ggodo — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:31:34 +0000

Is the charisma stat still physical beauty? If so, I’m surprised the ‘ugly’ races (tieflings, dragonborn, halflings?) had the charisma bonuses and not the elves that everyon repeatedly calls beautiful in the books.

By: mordicai

mordicai — Tue, 12 May 2009 14:26:50 +0000

Really, the one of the best things about this edition is removing penalties; Intellegence & Charisma penalties entered very weird territory, when you consider how much “race” in DnD (a biological construct) maps to “race” in real life (a social construct). At least now you can have a discussion without someone bringing up “hey, orcs are naturally mentally deficient– aka savages– because of their int/cha penalties!” Ugh, just SO “legacy of institutionalized racism” you know?

By: Megido

Megido — Mon, 11 May 2009 21:45:59 +0000

@mordicai: Trust me, we had no qualms about taking down the exORCist (and we royally beat his ass too). When somebody’s head turns all the way around you don’t try to negotiate. You run away, or you lay the smack down.

And I’m glad I watched the uncut version of the movie. Otherwise I’d have no idea what The Mouth of Sauron is. Yeah, that bastard was creepy.

@silentstriderm: Good books. It would be cool to have battles like that, but I’m thinking you’d need to be at least close to epic levels to survive something along those lines. At least survive it in an interesting way like the main characters. I guess low levels could just be lucky canon fodder, and survive, heh heh.

By: silentstriderm

silentstriderm — Mon, 11 May 2009 18:28:51 +0000

Well, the nice thing about going to war with orcs, is that you are not going to just be fighting orcs, but also other goblinoids and maybe giants, or what have you. Really, after reading the Hunters Blades trilogy, all I want is a war campaign so I can basically relive those books around the table.

By: mordicai

mordicai — Mon, 11 May 2009 17:55:12 +0000

If the orc starts spitting pea soup & spinning his head around, feel free to lop it off! I really enjoyed the bit of the “Return of the King” movie where the Mouth of Sauron comes out & is all “OHHH I am SOOOO CREEEEEPY & your widdle friends are dead & we are sooooo mean &…” & Aragorn just lops his head off. Yeah, any gamer will tell you– screw that guy. Yeah, forget that, DIE.

Wars with orcs are much better than adventures versus orcs, too– when you are an adventurer, you are just one big home invasion jerk.