In order to find the shrine, they had to decipher a poem found in a large old tome. The poem itself was written in code and could not be deciphered, but above it was a phrase in old elvish which they could read. It said: “Speak speak and listen.” Of course, the idea was that they would command the book to speak by saying “speak,” and then the book would magically read the poem aloud in a language they could understand.

At least three of the people sitting at the table (out of 5 or 6) were familiar with the Lord of the Rings, but they were just as stumped as Gandalf at that door. Eventually I had to hint quite strongly and they figured it out. But I wasn’t sure if I had failed to give them proper clues, or if they were just having an off-day.

I guess what I mean is, it’s hard to predict what sort of context the players will default to when you present your puzzle, and sometimes the context determines everything. If I were running the adventure today, I might prepare them for the puzzle with some word games with NPC’s, or other logic problems–warm them up, as it were. When a puzzle comes out of the blue, it’s often quite difficult to solve.

MY solution, as a smart guy playing a dumb guy, was to play on my character’s high wisdom. I couldn’t THINK of the solution but I could agree with other PCs when they were on a track I liked. Maybe a high-charisma character could help the 6 year old wizard by Socratic method?

Your own ability to solve or not solve a logic puzzle should not project on to your character.

The group barbarian with an intelligence of 6 played by a very intelligent player would have a better chance of figuring out a logic puzzle than the party’s wizard with an intelligence of 20 but played by your neighbor’s 6 year old. You must have a group that is willing to suspend their game roles enough to complete the puzzle as a metagame.

Otherwise, what’s to prevent the intelligent barbarian player from saying, “Conan is going to pound on the doors with his fists and curse the builders’ ancestors while Greywolf the Wise figures out the puzzle,” leaving the 6 year old kid to try to muddle through a puzzle far beyond him?

I guess what I’m saying is, if you’re including puzzles, you should make them solvable by skill challenges, too. A player should be able to say, “Personally, I don’t have a clue. Ask Samel” and roll a d20.

As to putting in a believable reason for the logic puzzle, taht all depends on the delivery of the mechanism. The Davinci Code put forth a believable reason why the builders of a door, for instance, would want their code to be breakable. In case they were all killed and they didn’t pass on the password to any one else.

In our case, the builders were all dead and we’re not sure yet if they were trying to seal in treasures or seal in the succubus (we are now caught in a kill or be killed fight with their nemesis-almost the entire party has been bloodied at least once and the succubus just summoned a demon). In any event, they presumably had a desire to let some future generations of Bahamut worshippers avenge them and reclaim their relics.

That’s the way I would tend to pursue a logic puzzle – at least for a door, leave it out in a way that indicates it was a last ditch password reconstruction concept, designed to be solvable, hopefully people who had similar goals or motivations as the creators. If it was bad guys, you could take bits fo the code from couriers or find them on their dead bodies etc. I thinks its just a question of delivery and I found the puzzle to be quite fun.

I used riddles notably in a couple of sessions:
http://mordicai.livejournal.com/1591384.html
http://mordicai.livejournal.com/1596284.html

& knew how I’d “pay” the players for the right reward– the first was pretty cheesy: two goblins were mounted on huge rats. They are the chief’s top lieutenants. rather than fight for the number two slot the chief drew a line in the sand, sent them out & said who ever’s rat crosses this line last wins. They players were talking with the two goblin exiles, which left me a chance to drop hints, & respond to their musing.

Next I did a variation on the chicken/fox/grain riddle; how will the farmer get them across if the boat can only hold him & two others? I figured everyone knew the basic “trick” & they could use the minis to help think it out.

Third was a fatal lottery. Pick the black marble, death, pick white, life. unfortunately, the executioner had it in for the NPC & had switched the marbles to both be black. Solution: swallow the marble he picks! So if there is a black left, by process of elimination me must have swallowed white. In THIS trial, I was sure to know what would happen if it wasn’t figured out.