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	<title>Comments on: Project: Death Race &#8211; Open Alpha Playtest Rules</title>
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	<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/</link>
	<description>Gaming</description>
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		<title>By: darkminstrel</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-838</link>
		<dc:creator>darkminstrel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-838</guid>
		<description>I have to agree on reducing firing arcs to 90 degrees. That ups the value of a turret and allows a rear facing weapon to have some use. 

Now, on to the meat! I absolutely can NOT understand why there is no &#039;turbo boost&#039; esque equipment, so my 10 year old stepson and I brainstormed one. The text below is an alpha for your alpha but it blends what I feel is a good cost-to-benefit ratio in it.

NOS Injector
Heavy
Type: Induction
Points: 20
Range: 0
Rounds: 4
Effect: This vehicle&#039;s Speed Rating is now 100. An the controller&#039;s next Acceleration Phase this vehicle may not have a Speed Rating of less than 80. Vehicle&#039;s SR may be set as normal two turns after use of this equipment.

We think that taking up a heavy slot, coupled with the low cost and beneficial/negative effects of a quick speed boost make this a tasty treat for the match. Let me know what you think! 

We&#039;re playing our first match on tomorrow, once I finish painting the cars. I&#039;ll create as detailed a picture post as I can, so be ready!

Note; For all you MW:AoD players out there: Ravager Battle Armour provides some scale perfect machine guns. Hellion Mechs provide convincing looking Masers. And either Firestarters, or Construction Mech MODs provide great NOS/Smoke/Oil tanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree on reducing firing arcs to 90 degrees. That ups the value of a turret and allows a rear facing weapon to have some use. </p>
<p>Now, on to the meat! I absolutely can NOT understand why there is no &#8216;turbo boost&#8217; esque equipment, so my 10 year old stepson and I brainstormed one. The text below is an alpha for your alpha but it blends what I feel is a good cost-to-benefit ratio in it.</p>
<p>NOS Injector<br />
Heavy<br />
Type: Induction<br />
Points: 20<br />
Range: 0<br />
Rounds: 4<br />
Effect: This vehicle&#8217;s Speed Rating is now 100. An the controller&#8217;s next Acceleration Phase this vehicle may not have a Speed Rating of less than 80. Vehicle&#8217;s SR may be set as normal two turns after use of this equipment.</p>
<p>We think that taking up a heavy slot, coupled with the low cost and beneficial/negative effects of a quick speed boost make this a tasty treat for the match. Let me know what you think! </p>
<p>We&#8217;re playing our first match on tomorrow, once I finish painting the cars. I&#8217;ll create as detailed a picture post as I can, so be ready!</p>
<p>Note; For all you MW:AoD players out there: Ravager Battle Armour provides some scale perfect machine guns. Hellion Mechs provide convincing looking Masers. And either Firestarters, or Construction Mech MODs provide great NOS/Smoke/Oil tanks.</p>
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		<title>By: JonnyRotten</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-809</link>
		<dc:creator>JonnyRotten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-809</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been mulling over the 180 arc for weapons myself. I think its a bit too generous. I&#039;ve considered house ruling it down to 90. Then it would be a tactical decision whether you wanted to place a gun front facing or rear facing.  Plus it helps make having a rear mounted gun more valuable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been mulling over the 180 arc for weapons myself. I think its a bit too generous. I&#8217;ve considered house ruling it down to 90. Then it would be a tactical decision whether you wanted to place a gun front facing or rear facing.  Plus it helps make having a rear mounted gun more valuable.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-804</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-804</guid>
		<description>Fantastic playtest report, ridingsloth! I&#039;ve added some fixes to my &quot;to-do&quot; list, including clarifying the skid rules and fixing the spin modifier (I think it should be 15 - it&#039;s really really hard to pull out of a spin at speed in real life). 

Regarding the spin facing question, your interpretation is correct. Although I see your friend&#039;s point of view, to do it otherwise would require marking off the original facing, and figuring out what happens when a car moves sideways. Ie, the added complexity outweighs the benefits of realism in that case.

The same could be said for weapon firing arcs. I wanted to keep combat incredibly simple, because I know there&#039;d be some unavoidable complexity with the other stuff. So it&#039;s basically, if someone is on my right side, I can shoot him with my ride side gun. We had this discussion at our big playtest, too. If it helps, feel free to imagine some kind of swivel mount. :-)

So, I&#039;m approaching rules revisions sort of like open source software. Later this week I&#039;ll post some proposed rules changes and &quot;bug fixes.&quot; Following comments, I&#039;ll put out a new release of the pdf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic playtest report, ridingsloth! I&#8217;ve added some fixes to my &#8220;to-do&#8221; list, including clarifying the skid rules and fixing the spin modifier (I think it should be 15 &#8211; it&#8217;s really really hard to pull out of a spin at speed in real life). </p>
<p>Regarding the spin facing question, your interpretation is correct. Although I see your friend&#8217;s point of view, to do it otherwise would require marking off the original facing, and figuring out what happens when a car moves sideways. Ie, the added complexity outweighs the benefits of realism in that case.</p>
<p>The same could be said for weapon firing arcs. I wanted to keep combat incredibly simple, because I know there&#8217;d be some unavoidable complexity with the other stuff. So it&#8217;s basically, if someone is on my right side, I can shoot him with my ride side gun. We had this discussion at our big playtest, too. If it helps, feel free to imagine some kind of swivel mount. <img src='http://www.robotviking.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So, I&#8217;m approaching rules revisions sort of like open source software. Later this week I&#8217;ll post some proposed rules changes and &#8220;bug fixes.&#8221; Following comments, I&#8217;ll put out a new release of the pdf.</p>
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		<title>By: ridingsloth</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-803</link>
		<dc:creator>ridingsloth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-803</guid>
		<description>My buddy and I got to play last night, and had a great time! The system was simple enough that we internalized the rules fairly quickly, so we rarely needed to consult the rules past the second turn or so. We actually kinda liked the collision rules (though they do tend to destroy cars quickly) but I can&#039;t wait to see the new version.

Some of our observations:
-2 Players with 2 cars each.
-&quot;Build&quot; time: ~30 minutes
-Play time: ~1.5 hours

-The Howitzer feels &quot;too good&quot;. It has respectable range, power, ammo, cost, and attack bonus, and while there are weapons that beat it in every category, it feels like any driver without a howitzer or two is a fool.

-The skidding rules are unclear as to the direction of the shift component. We tried to base this off the direction you were turning when you went into a skid, but the rules don&#039;t say how to determine the direction you skid (that we saw). 

-There is an inconsistency in the spinning rules regarding the control modifier (it says +15 in the text and +10 in the example).

-When spinning, are you to continue movement in the direction you are currently (randomly) facing, or in the direction you were moving when you started? We read it as the first. I loved this because it felt totally uncontrolled (and led to entertaining secondly crashes), but my buddy felt like it was &quot;unrealistic&quot;. Of course, that&#039;s what I get for playtesting with a Physics major...

-There were times when a weapon&#039;s 180-degree firing arc didn&#039;t feel &quot;right&quot;, at the extreme corners of the firing range. *shrug*

I think we had a couple of other observations, but I don&#039;t recall them at the moment. I&#039;ll check my notebook later and post anything that looks helpful. Thanks for all the great work, I&#039;m already planning an elaborate battle arena. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My buddy and I got to play last night, and had a great time! The system was simple enough that we internalized the rules fairly quickly, so we rarely needed to consult the rules past the second turn or so. We actually kinda liked the collision rules (though they do tend to destroy cars quickly) but I can&#8217;t wait to see the new version.</p>
<p>Some of our observations:<br />
-2 Players with 2 cars each.<br />
-&#8221;Build&#8221; time: ~30 minutes<br />
-Play time: ~1.5 hours</p>
<p>-The Howitzer feels &#8220;too good&#8221;. It has respectable range, power, ammo, cost, and attack bonus, and while there are weapons that beat it in every category, it feels like any driver without a howitzer or two is a fool.</p>
<p>-The skidding rules are unclear as to the direction of the shift component. We tried to base this off the direction you were turning when you went into a skid, but the rules don&#8217;t say how to determine the direction you skid (that we saw). </p>
<p>-There is an inconsistency in the spinning rules regarding the control modifier (it says +15 in the text and +10 in the example).</p>
<p>-When spinning, are you to continue movement in the direction you are currently (randomly) facing, or in the direction you were moving when you started? We read it as the first. I loved this because it felt totally uncontrolled (and led to entertaining secondly crashes), but my buddy felt like it was &#8220;unrealistic&#8221;. Of course, that&#8217;s what I get for playtesting with a Physics major&#8230;</p>
<p>-There were times when a weapon&#8217;s 180-degree firing arc didn&#8217;t feel &#8220;right&#8221;, at the extreme corners of the firing range. *shrug*</p>
<p>I think we had a couple of other observations, but I don&#8217;t recall them at the moment. I&#8217;ll check my notebook later and post anything that looks helpful. Thanks for all the great work, I&#8217;m already planning an elaborate battle arena. <img src='http://www.robotviking.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-802</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-802</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;ve been bashing my head against the collision problem for days (heh). I think I have it. It still needs testing, but we&#039;ll see. Basically, you do some quick calculation to determine deflection of one of the cars. Then reduce speed and simply push that car forward at its new speed. It will naturally nudge the other car out of the way and create a new facing for that car. Then you move the other car in a similar manner. It should even solve secondary collision problems - if you hit a third or a fourth car, no problem, they get nudged too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;ve been bashing my head against the collision problem for days (heh). I think I have it. It still needs testing, but we&#8217;ll see. Basically, you do some quick calculation to determine deflection of one of the cars. Then reduce speed and simply push that car forward at its new speed. It will naturally nudge the other car out of the way and create a new facing for that car. Then you move the other car in a similar manner. It should even solve secondary collision problems &#8211; if you hit a third or a fourth car, no problem, they get nudged too.</p>
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		<title>By: JonnyRotten</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-801</link>
		<dc:creator>JonnyRotten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-801</guid>
		<description>Any updates on this?
Any more thoughts about the crash system?

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I&#039;m hoping to get another game of this in tonight with my son, still trying to come up with an easy way to handle collisions myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any updates on this?<br />
Any more thoughts about the crash system?</p>
<p>Looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I&#8217;m hoping to get another game of this in tonight with my son, still trying to come up with an easy way to handle collisions myself.</p>
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		<title>By: artbraune</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-798</link>
		<dc:creator>artbraune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-798</guid>
		<description>Ed,

You are welcome - thanks for putting out Death Race for us to play with!

Art</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed,</p>
<p>You are welcome &#8211; thanks for putting out Death Race for us to play with!</p>
<p>Art</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-797</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 03:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-797</guid>
		<description>Holy crap, those are freaking amazing. And perfect. Thanks for the heads up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holy crap, those are freaking amazing. And perfect. Thanks for the heads up.</p>
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		<title>By: artbraune</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-796</link>
		<dc:creator>artbraune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 03:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-796</guid>
		<description>This arrived in my email today - Jada Battle Machines http://www.jadaclub.com/

They look ready made for this type of game...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This arrived in my email today &#8211; Jada Battle Machines <a href="http://www.jadaclub.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jadaclub.com/</a></p>
<p>They look ready made for this type of game&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JonnyRotten</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-786</link>
		<dc:creator>JonnyRotten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-786</guid>
		<description>Yeah, they don&#039;t stick together, but they usually don&#039;t keep driving after a 90MPH collision either. 
I would say move each of them either 1/2 or 1/4 their original speed.
Maybe move them 1/2, and their speed at the start of the next turn is 1/4 of their speed before the collision (or if one was going below 20 MPH it would be at a stop)

Maybe once you decide direction. Move the dial one to the right for one car, and then one spot to the left for the other, so they will be seperated.
Or one spot on the dial in the direction they were originally going?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, they don&#8217;t stick together, but they usually don&#8217;t keep driving after a 90MPH collision either.<br />
I would say move each of them either 1/2 or 1/4 their original speed.<br />
Maybe move them 1/2, and their speed at the start of the next turn is 1/4 of their speed before the collision (or if one was going below 20 MPH it would be at a stop)</p>
<p>Maybe once you decide direction. Move the dial one to the right for one car, and then one spot to the left for the other, so they will be seperated.<br />
Or one spot on the dial in the direction they were originally going?</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-785</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-785</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s really similar to one of the earlier iterations of the collision system. Using the maneuver tool is a good idea though (I was planning a separate collision template). Basically, each car would add their ram value and speed (accounting for both speed and mass), then subtract them to come up with a single number. You put the maneuver tool so the pointer is straight along a line midway between the directions the two cars were moving in. Then you move the pointer to the number determined in the earlier step, and that&#039;s the direction they go. How far do they go? Not sure yet.

Then throw in a control check and a possible spin. Would you keep the 1d4 inches of separation? Cars don&#039;t stick together when they hit each other, they bounce and move in different directions.

Agh, so complicated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s really similar to one of the earlier iterations of the collision system. Using the maneuver tool is a good idea though (I was planning a separate collision template). Basically, each car would add their ram value and speed (accounting for both speed and mass), then subtract them to come up with a single number. You put the maneuver tool so the pointer is straight along a line midway between the directions the two cars were moving in. Then you move the pointer to the number determined in the earlier step, and that&#8217;s the direction they go. How far do they go? Not sure yet.</p>
<p>Then throw in a control check and a possible spin. Would you keep the 1d4 inches of separation? Cars don&#8217;t stick together when they hit each other, they bounce and move in different directions.</p>
<p>Agh, so complicated.</p>
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		<title>By: JonnyRotten</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-784</link>
		<dc:creator>JonnyRotten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-784</guid>
		<description>Maybe alter the Direction tool a bit, and figure out a quick way to use it for collisions?
Like:
Car 1 is going 80 MPH and Hits Car 2 that is going 40.
Put the tool at 9, and then subtract 4, and you have the direction the crash moves. 

So if you hit a car that was not moving at all, you would go in a straight line.

I don&#039;t know. It would need some work, but its an idea.

Something really quick and easy like that would be best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe alter the Direction tool a bit, and figure out a quick way to use it for collisions?<br />
Like:<br />
Car 1 is going 80 MPH and Hits Car 2 that is going 40.<br />
Put the tool at 9, and then subtract 4, and you have the direction the crash moves. </p>
<p>So if you hit a car that was not moving at all, you would go in a straight line.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know. It would need some work, but its an idea.</p>
<p>Something really quick and easy like that would be best.</p>
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		<title>By: khovaros</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-783</link>
		<dc:creator>khovaros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-783</guid>
		<description>I was thinking over some of the turning rules . . . maybe you could turn at the start, middle and/or  end of your move with the number of times you  can attempt to turn being linked to the car&#039;s handling rating.  Then, if your car makes multiple turns at high speeds, the control numbers stack . . . trying to do a U-turn at 90 could really knock your car out of whack (ever seen Bullit?).  

Anyhow, just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking over some of the turning rules . . . maybe you could turn at the start, middle and/or  end of your move with the number of times you  can attempt to turn being linked to the car&#8217;s handling rating.  Then, if your car makes multiple turns at high speeds, the control numbers stack . . . trying to do a U-turn at 90 could really knock your car out of whack (ever seen Bullit?).  </p>
<p>Anyhow, just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: JonnyRotten</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/06/03/project-death-race-open-alpha-playtest-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-782</link>
		<dc:creator>JonnyRotten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1194#comment-782</guid>
		<description>Also, you can see my boy using it in one of the pictures, I printed out the turning tool and mounted it on cardboard and it works pretty well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, you can see my boy using it in one of the pictures, I printed out the turning tool and mounted it on cardboard and it works pretty well.</p>
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