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	<title>Comments on: Divine Power Review: More Options, More Powers</title>
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	<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/</link>
	<description>Gaming</description>
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		<title>By: ggodo</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1076</link>
		<dc:creator>ggodo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 01:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1076</guid>
		<description>Owen, I&#039;ve always been a fan of the random things that don&#039;t do anything directly, but you can use to Macguyver your way out of stuff. Maybe it&#039;s just my play group, but we don&#039;t use skill checks so much as physics and logical manipulation. Some rules for Cantrip like skills for other classes would be great. I don&#039;t have my books on me, but I don&#039;t recall seeing any in the PHI. Haven&#039;t gotten a good look at any of the other supplements, but I can&#039;t imagine that it would change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Owen, I&#8217;ve always been a fan of the random things that don&#8217;t do anything directly, but you can use to Macguyver your way out of stuff. Maybe it&#8217;s just my play group, but we don&#8217;t use skill checks so much as physics and logical manipulation. Some rules for Cantrip like skills for other classes would be great. I don&#8217;t have my books on me, but I don&#8217;t recall seeing any in the PHI. Haven&#8217;t gotten a good look at any of the other supplements, but I can&#8217;t imagine that it would change.</p>
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		<title>By: mordicai</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1073</link>
		<dc:creator>mordicai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1073</guid>
		<description>Ranger: &quot;That&#039;s not a knife.  This is a knife...&quot; 

Add your weapon&#039;s enhancement &amp; proficiency bonus to any old skill check you feel like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ranger: &#8220;That&#8217;s not a knife.  This is a knife&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>Add your weapon&#8217;s enhancement &amp; proficiency bonus to any old skill check you feel like.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1071</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1071</guid>
		<description>Here are some ideas for bards or charisma-based classes:

Enrage Mob
Daily
CHA vs. Number of People in Crowd
Target group of sentient beings is consumed by anger toward any one specific person, group or object (ie, &quot;Count Vorlan,&quot; or, &quot;The Knights of Aglafor&quot;). Anyone with a class in the group can make a saving throw to avoid the effect even if it hits. The mob will delay and harass the target, but won&#039;t overtly attack it or do any damage.

Shrewd Haggling
Daily
CHA vs. Will
Success: Target grants a 20 percent discount on any single purchase made within the next five minutes.

Flattery
Encounter
CHA vs. Will
Trigger: Ally makes a lore check based on streetwise, diplomacy, bluff or insight. The result of the check is one difficulty level higher than what is actually rolled, ie if you get an 18 on the check, you get the lore info block for a 20.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some ideas for bards or charisma-based classes:</p>
<p>Enrage Mob<br />
Daily<br />
CHA vs. Number of People in Crowd<br />
Target group of sentient beings is consumed by anger toward any one specific person, group or object (ie, &#8220;Count Vorlan,&#8221; or, &#8220;The Knights of Aglafor&#8221;). Anyone with a class in the group can make a saving throw to avoid the effect even if it hits. The mob will delay and harass the target, but won&#8217;t overtly attack it or do any damage.</p>
<p>Shrewd Haggling<br />
Daily<br />
CHA vs. Will<br />
Success: Target grants a 20 percent discount on any single purchase made within the next five minutes.</p>
<p>Flattery<br />
Encounter<br />
CHA vs. Will<br />
Trigger: Ally makes a lore check based on streetwise, diplomacy, bluff or insight. The result of the check is one difficulty level higher than what is actually rolled, ie if you get an 18 on the check, you get the lore info block for a 20.</p>
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		<title>By: OStephens</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1070</link>
		<dc:creator>OStephens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1070</guid>
		<description>LOL

I bow to your superior title-making skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL</p>
<p>I bow to your superior title-making skills.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1069</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1069</guid>
		<description>I like that one Owen, but I think the name should be, &quot;Welcome to the Gun Show.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that one Owen, but I think the name should be, &#8220;Welcome to the Gun Show.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: OStephens</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1068</link>
		<dc:creator>OStephens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1068</guid>
		<description>If nothing else you could always just allow checks for skill challenges that are normally outside its parameters.

Mighty Flex
There&#039;s nothing you can&#039;t do with muscles, from flexing them to impress the other side in a meeting of diplomats, to lifting fallen trees with looking for clues. In any skill challenge, you may always make a Strength check at +4 for a single skill challenge check.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If nothing else you could always just allow checks for skill challenges that are normally outside its parameters.</p>
<p>Mighty Flex<br />
There&#8217;s nothing you can&#8217;t do with muscles, from flexing them to impress the other side in a meeting of diplomats, to lifting fallen trees with looking for clues. In any skill challenge, you may always make a Strength check at +4 for a single skill challenge check.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1067</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1067</guid>
		<description>4E makes this an interesting question, because in past editions, non-combat stuff was sort of where non-fighter classes got to shine, and the fighters tended to keep their hands in their pockets. Now that all classes are equally active in combat, we have to try to make them equally active out of it. It&#039;s easy to convert old arcane spells, but how to get everyone involved?

I think we should start with skill challenges. When run properly, a skill challenge is an awesome non-combat encounter. You&#039;ve got to think on your feet and interact with NPCs - last week, our party ran this elaborate ruse on a group of duergar slavers, and the skill challenge was epic. So perhaps charms, illusions, inta-information gathering, things that boost intimidation, things that like that give bonuses to skill challenge rolls. You could introduce dex, str and con based ones for skill challenges revolving around chases or escapes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4E makes this an interesting question, because in past editions, non-combat stuff was sort of where non-fighter classes got to shine, and the fighters tended to keep their hands in their pockets. Now that all classes are equally active in combat, we have to try to make them equally active out of it. It&#8217;s easy to convert old arcane spells, but how to get everyone involved?</p>
<p>I think we should start with skill challenges. When run properly, a skill challenge is an awesome non-combat encounter. You&#8217;ve got to think on your feet and interact with NPCs &#8211; last week, our party ran this elaborate ruse on a group of duergar slavers, and the skill challenge was epic. So perhaps charms, illusions, inta-information gathering, things that boost intimidation, things that like that give bonuses to skill challenge rolls. You could introduce dex, str and con based ones for skill challenges revolving around chases or escapes.</p>
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		<title>By: OStephens</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1064</link>
		<dc:creator>OStephens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1064</guid>
		<description>Gosh, I blush. And just call me &quot;Owen,&quot; folks -- I eat Doritos and drink Mt Dew when I game just like any other geek, so I think we&#039;re largely on a first-name basis.

I really like the idea of a Utility power called &quot;Bend Bars, Lift Gates,&quot; both because it could be nice for extra oomph when playing the brawny figher and because it&#039;s a nice nod to older editions.

As for Word of Mouth, that&#039;s a great idea too. There&#039;s a feat a lot like that in Mutants &amp; Masterminds (Well-Informed), that (as I recall) lets you make an immediate gather Information check when you first meet someone. Actually, M&amp;M feats might be a great resource for people looking for non-combat powers (or even some new combat abilities -- Master Plan would make a great Leadership-role power).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gosh, I blush. And just call me &#8220;Owen,&#8221; folks &#8212; I eat Doritos and drink Mt Dew when I game just like any other geek, so I think we&#8217;re largely on a first-name basis.</p>
<p>I really like the idea of a Utility power called &#8220;Bend Bars, Lift Gates,&#8221; both because it could be nice for extra oomph when playing the brawny figher and because it&#8217;s a nice nod to older editions.</p>
<p>As for Word of Mouth, that&#8217;s a great idea too. There&#8217;s a feat a lot like that in Mutants &amp; Masterminds (Well-Informed), that (as I recall) lets you make an immediate gather Information check when you first meet someone. Actually, M&amp;M feats might be a great resource for people looking for non-combat powers (or even some new combat abilities &#8212; Master Plan would make a great Leadership-role power).</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1063</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1063</guid>
		<description>Silent Image. Major Image. A daily utility version of Rope Trick. Flesh to Stone. Stone to Flesh. Enlarge Person. Reduce Person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Silent Image. Major Image. A daily utility version of Rope Trick. Flesh to Stone. Stone to Flesh. Enlarge Person. Reduce Person.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mordicai</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1062</link>
		<dc:creator>mordicai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1062</guid>
		<description>Well I&#039;d assume they&#039;d be by class, &amp; well; the Arcane &amp; Divine (etc) classes don&#039;t need much thinking-- there are plenty of spells from former editions I&#039;d like to see ported over; like I said, charms, illusion, all kinds of stuff like that.  

Rogues are a bit trickier-- maybe things that let you back date actions?  Utility power: You already picked that guy&#039;s pocket.  Use it &amp; declare you picked his pocket when no one was looking.  Maybe Utility: Word of Mouth-- make a Gather Info check without leaving the room; you&#039;ve heard rumors of that in your carousing.

Fighting men are trickier still, but things like &quot;1000 yard stare&quot; immediately come to mind, as do maybe First Aid or maybe feats of Strength or Dexterity?  Long jump, bend bars, lift gates...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I&#8217;d assume they&#8217;d be by class, &amp; well; the Arcane &amp; Divine (etc) classes don&#8217;t need much thinking&#8211; there are plenty of spells from former editions I&#8217;d like to see ported over; like I said, charms, illusion, all kinds of stuff like that.  </p>
<p>Rogues are a bit trickier&#8211; maybe things that let you back date actions?  Utility power: You already picked that guy&#8217;s pocket.  Use it &amp; declare you picked his pocket when no one was looking.  Maybe Utility: Word of Mouth&#8211; make a Gather Info check without leaving the room; you&#8217;ve heard rumors of that in your carousing.</p>
<p>Fighting men are trickier still, but things like &#8220;1000 yard stare&#8221; immediately come to mind, as do maybe First Aid or maybe feats of Strength or Dexterity?  Long jump, bend bars, lift gates&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1059</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1059</guid>
		<description>My fellow Vikings, I&#039;m pleased to introduce Owen K.C. Stephens, a man who has played a major part in the creation of many of our favorite games, including a ton of Star Wars RPG books. Check out his blog: http://owen-stephens.livejournal.com/ Lots of good stuff, including some unofficial and unreleased 4E material.

So what sorts of non-combat powers would we suggest? I&#039;ll let you guys have at it for awhile, and I&#039;ll be back later with my ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My fellow Vikings, I&#8217;m pleased to introduce Owen K.C. Stephens, a man who has played a major part in the creation of many of our favorite games, including a ton of Star Wars RPG books. Check out his blog: <a href="http://owen-stephens.livejournal.com/" rel="nofollow">http://owen-stephens.livejournal.com/</a> Lots of good stuff, including some unofficial and unreleased 4E material.</p>
<p>So what sorts of non-combat powers would we suggest? I&#8217;ll let you guys have at it for awhile, and I&#8217;ll be back later with my ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: OStephens</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1058</link>
		<dc:creator>OStephens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1058</guid>
		<description>Can you give a rough idea of what kind of out-of-combat powers you&#039;d like to see?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you give a rough idea of what kind of out-of-combat powers you&#8217;d like to see?</p>
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		<title>By: ggodo</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1055</link>
		<dc:creator>ggodo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 23:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1055</guid>
		<description>YES! The robot viking has spotted my main problem with 4e.  IT&#039;S ALL COMBAT! if I wanted that I&#039;d play Warhammer or Heroscape. Give me a chance to have those crazy things outside of combat and I&#039;ll back 4ed entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YES! The robot viking has spotted my main problem with 4e.  IT&#8217;S ALL COMBAT! if I wanted that I&#8217;d play Warhammer or Heroscape. Give me a chance to have those crazy things outside of combat and I&#8217;ll back 4ed entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Grabianowski</title>
		<link>http://www.robotviking.com/2009/07/23/divine-power-review-more-options-more-powers/comment-page-1/#comment-1046</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Grabianowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robotviking.com/?p=1413#comment-1046</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s our one major problem with 4E as well (well, that and combt taking forever, which we will hopefully solve this week). A handful of the utility spells are non-combat, mostly giving boosts to skill checks, but a lot more needs to be done in that area. A lot of our favorite memories from the 3e campaign involve these crazy things we did with spells and abilities outside of combat, but none of it is possible in 4E. And rituals just don&#039;t cut it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s our one major problem with 4E as well (well, that and combt taking forever, which we will hopefully solve this week). A handful of the utility spells are non-combat, mostly giving boosts to skill checks, but a lot more needs to be done in that area. A lot of our favorite memories from the 3e campaign involve these crazy things we did with spells and abilities outside of combat, but none of it is possible in 4E. And rituals just don&#8217;t cut it.</p>
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